# Windows 10 Mobile more dead than alive



## sensboston (Jan 7, 2018)

How you guys enjoying upside-down camera in Skype app (after latest update)? :laugh: 

Are you still waiting for "WP internals 2.2"? Are you necromancers (or necrophils)? :laugh:

So, trust me (to a man who has and used WP much earlier than you heard about it), WP/W10M platform is almost dead, and damn M$ do everything to kill it (even hardware isn't too outdated). Best we can do, is to sell these damn handsets on eBay (while they cost at least a few bucks). I predict, this summer you'll not be able to sell L-950/Xl even for a $50!

Will be glad to hear any real-life arguments about latest M$ "bugdate"... BTW, if you really enjoy upside-down camera in Skype - please do not reply...


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## marianodelfino (Jan 7, 2018)

As i said in reddit, gonna quote myself.



> The Microsoft CEO has no clue on what to do. Maybe Satya has some aces up his sleeve but at this point i serously doubt it. Like when you are watching The voice and you're waiting for Jesus Christ to come down and blow your head off... but Jesus Christ doesn't come.

Click to collapse


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## Ani64 (Jan 7, 2018)

*Still happy for what my Lumia is....just a companion*

The death of platform forced me (a complete Windows user without any other platform) to use my laptop most of times. For example, using Word for college work and some websites like my college one dosen't load properly on my Lumia 730. That times, when most of my friends use their phones for those tasks, I take out my trusty laptop. Even for Spotify, I hate the Mobile app but the desktop app and web works fine. So for me, the phone is just a companion not more than that at all, like others who use phones and iPads for little work. 
Waiting for Surface Phone to change that and I want it to be more productive than Android/iOS.


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## Arshen (Jan 7, 2018)

ops
this is zambi
not dead


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## dxdy (Jan 7, 2018)

i hope my 950XL works one year more  no (big) problems, camera is excellent... 

btw... is easy to get back to AU and have less problems


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## sensboston (Jan 7, 2018)

dxdy said:


> i hope my 950XL works one year more  no (big) problems, camera is excellent...

Click to collapse



I thought so but looks like M$ have a different plan  Skype is a primary functionality (at least for me). What bug we should expect next? Impossibility to make phone calls or send SMS? 



dxdy said:


> btw... is easy to get back to AU and have less problems

Click to collapse



This will not solve Skype issue. And w/o updates many apps become non-working...

But the worst news is: this showstopper means - there is *ABSOLUTELY NO QUALITY ASSURANCE* for releases, nobody at M$ testing/care about W10M releases! What if student-intern or outsourced contractor from Bangalore, India will add a rootkit/troyan/malicious code to the next release?!

W10M become very dangerous OS, it's not safe to use it anymore...


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## mikevespa (Jan 7, 2018)

No, it isn't dead. In fact, Microsoft released the new build 15254.158 a few days ago.


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## marianodelfino (Jan 7, 2018)

mikevespa said:


> No, it isn't dead. In fact, Microsoft released the new build 15254.158 a few days ago.

Click to collapse



That's a security patch... meltdown protection and other stuff... It's not like a new version of the os with features.


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## augustinionut (Jan 7, 2018)

Sensoboston, i wat to buy your 950 xl. Detail on PM.


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## sensboston (Jan 8, 2018)

@augustinionut, I don't have XL. 950 only. And I'll sell 'em (we have 2) on eBay only.


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## NIKOSXRI (Jan 8, 2018)

I have no skype problems.
I just turned my head upside down


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## mikevespa (Jan 8, 2018)

I suggest to the moderator of this forum, to close this thread, because it's useless and misleading. W10M is still supported and updated!
If you don't like W10M anymore, just don't use it!


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## orangekid (Jan 8, 2018)

mikevespa said:


> I suggest to the moderator of this forum, to close this thread, because it's useless and misleading. W10M is still supported and updated!
> If you don't like W10M anymore, just don't use it!

Click to collapse



No reason to close the thread honestly, if you have evidence that it is supported and updated, then post up and let's get a real conversation going.  Prove the OP wrong and let's see what MS is doing that you like, or could do better.

We can keep an eye out but I haven't seen anything in this thread that would warrant it being closed.


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## dape16 (Jan 9, 2018)

Windows 10 Mobile really IS more dead than alive.

If I remember correctly MS promised to backport new APIs to W10M, so it could use new or updated UWP apps. This seems like just another broken promise.

As Microsoft has removed Windows 10 Mobile from the Windows 10 SDK, this is the last nail in the coffin.

"Without presence of Mobile in the SDK, no new apps can be developed, and developers can’t update their apps anymore."

"As PC moves on, Mobile has got stuck on Redstone 2. So if a developer wants to update his UWP app, he has to split it into two versions, one for Mobile and the other for rest."

"Microsoft has already stopped updating many of their apps, and it is a matter of time before other developers follow suit."

 Source: https://www.windowslatest.com/2017/12/29/mentions-windows-10-mobile-removed-windows-10-sdk/


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## mikevespa (Jan 9, 2018)

The PRODUCT_MOBILE_CORE definition is no longer needed because the core is the same and shared among PC, mobile, XBOX, HoloLens and IoT


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## dape16 (Jan 9, 2018)

mikevespa said:


> The PRODUCT_MOBILE_CORE definition is no longer needed because the core is the same and shared among PC, mobile, XBOX, HoloLens and IoT

Click to collapse



Source?


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## mikevespa (Jan 11, 2018)

DECEMBER 2015 - Build 11082
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/12/16/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11082/
This includes the changes that have also been going out as cumulative updates through Windows Update on your PCs running the Windows 10 November Update as well as on phones running Windows 10 too. We’re also working on some structural improvements to OneCore, which is the shared core of Windows across devices. Essentially, *OneCore is the heart of Windows, and these improvements to OneCore make building Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, Hololens and Xbox more efficient*. We’re doing some code refactoring and other engineering work to make sure OneCore is optimally structured for teams to start checking in new features and improvements in the new year." 

JANUARY 2016 - Build 11099
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...ncing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11099/
"this build does not include big noticeable changes or new features yet. Our focus through the holidays was on structural improvements to* OneCore, which is the shared core of Windows across devices*. The code refactoring and other engineering work we’ve been doing to optimize OneCore is nearing the point where we will be ready for teams to begin checking in new features and improvements. It will still be a few builds before any really noticeable changes show up, depending on when teams begin lighting up new features in their areas. *We’re excited for Insiders to use this build to validate the work we’ve been doing to OneCore, so give this build a try and let us know of any issues you run into via the Windows Feedback app*."

AUGUST 2016 - Anniversary Update
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...indows-10-insider-preview-build-14901-for-pc/
"We are focusing on making some structural improvements to *OneCore which is the shared “heart” of Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, Hololens and Xbo*x. We’re doing some code refactoring and other engineering work to make sure OneCore is optimally structured for teams to start checking in new features and improvements in a few months. As a result, these builds may include more bugs and other issues that could be slightly more painful for some people to live with"

APRIL 2017
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...er-preview-build-16176-pc-build-15204-mobile/
"We are also releasing Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview Build 15204 to Insiders in the Fast ring. As we release new builds from our Development Branch for PC, we will also be doing the same for Windows 10 Mobile just like we have been in the past. However, Windows Insiders will likely notice some minor differences. The biggest difference being that the build number and branch won’t match the builds we will be releasing for PC. *This is a result of more work we’re doing to converge code into OneCore – the heart of Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, HoloLens, Xbox and more as we continue to develop new improvements for Windows 10 Mobile and our enterprise customers*."


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## dape16 (Jan 11, 2018)

mikevespa said:


> APRIL 2017
> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...-15204-mobile/
> "We are also releasing Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview Build 15204 to Insiders in the Fast ring. As we release new builds from our Development Branch for PC, we will also be doing the same for Windows 10 Mobile just like we have been in the past. However, Windows Insiders will likely notice some minor differences. The biggest difference being that the build number and branch won’t match the builds we will be releasing for PC.
> *This is a result of more work we’re doing to converge code into OneCore – the heart of Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, HoloLens, Xbox and more as we continue to develop new improvements for Windows 10 Mobile and our enterprise customers*."

Click to collapse



Your info is from when Windows Mobile 10 was pulled out of Windows 10 "main" branch with the "feature2" branch and was basically frozen at Redstone 2. Which of course means that any further development and improvements of OneCore from there on will never reach W10M. Just like other parts of the OS will never get updated, W10M is stuck with Edge version 40 and won't get any new Cortana features.
W10M has not been part of the OneCore development since it was left behind in "feature2".

That's the reason why Microsoft said they would backport some APIs from Redstone 3 (Fall Creators Update) and Redstone 4 to W10M "feature2" / Redstone 2. But the question now is if they changed their minds, when they are already removing W10M from the Windows 10 SDK.

BTW, the "PRODUCT_MOBILE_CORE" definition has nothing to do with OneCore / Windows kernel. It's a definition in the GetProductInfo function which tells a program which product type of Windows it's running on. "_CORE" in this case is just used for basic / consumer editions, like "PRODUCT_CORE" is used for Windows 10 Home and "PRODUCT_PROFESSIONAL" is used for Windows 10 Pro. There even was a "PRODUCT_MOBILE_ENTERPRISE" for Windows 10 Mobile Enterprise.


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## nate0 (Jan 11, 2018)

sensboston said:


> How you guys enjoying upside-down camera in Skype app (after latest update)? :laugh:
> 
> Are you still waiting for "WP internals 2.2"? Are you necromancers (or necrophils)? :laugh:
> 
> ...

Click to collapse



It is in ones perspective.  
From a consumer standpoint the Devices dropped off and the OS is crawling along instead of running with the other builds like before.  Unfortunately W10M is heading to a dead end.  Fortunately for me it has no bearing either way.  My phone calls still work, email, data, wifi etc.  No need to move to something else, or declare my device obsolete.  Ya Microsoft is not officially supporting W10M with no builds and features, but it is still supported with patches and such.  For me to have a 4 year old device (in some cases) still running the latest and greatest Microsoft has to offer is fine by me.  We all have different needs.  If it aint working for you then it is fine to find what you need that does work.  I personally really enjoy the basic functionality out of the box of the Lumias.  Plus it is easy and cheap to find parts if something fixable on them breaks 

From a developer standpoint, I bet this feels like a shot in the foot though from Microsoft in some ways.  They basically drove off all their developers by not pushing out newer mobile devices or ways to make the Windows OS stick on phones.  But maybe that was their plan since 2015...That is the way I see it anyway


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## sensboston (Jan 12, 2018)

nate0 said:


> My phone calls still work, email, data, wifi etc.

Click to collapse



But what do you do with a Skype, may I ask you? Do you do acrobatic stunts and meet other people via Skype on your head? 

I believe, my 9 yo "dumb phone" from Motorola still can receive phone calls, emails etc. (but I never tried since 2010) if I'll find working and active "big" SIM-card. But this definitely not a point! My point is: Lumia 950 (handset costs me about $650 - via 2 years contract extension with AT&T) become unusable for most common tasks. I can't use Skype, I can't control quadcopter with it, I can't even unlock a bicycle from VBikes company! And can't do a lot of other things...

And, finally, I'm really tired from the usual L-950 customers "prayer": "But the camera is outstanding!" No, sir, nothing outstanding for the current times.


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## nate0 (Jan 12, 2018)

sensboston said:


> But what do you do with a Skype, may I ask you? Do you do acrobatic stunts and meet other people via Skype on your head?
> 
> I believe, my 9 yo "dumb phone" from Motorola still can receive phone calls, emails etc. (but I never tried since 2010) if I'll find working and active "big" SIM-card. But this definitely not a point! My point is: Lumia 950 (handset costs me about $650 - via 2 years contract extension with AT&T) become unusable for most common tasks. I can't use Skype, I can't control quadcopter with it, I can't even unlock a bicycle from VBikes company! And can't do a lot of other things...
> 
> And, finally, I'm really tired from the usual L-950 customers "prayer": "But the camera is outstanding!" No, sir, nothing outstanding for the current times.

Click to collapse



I do not use skype.  Like I said it merely perspecitive.  You cannot live without it. I can.
The thread subject is thread: Windows 10 Mobile more dead than alive?  Not Skype.
W10M exists therefor it is alive.


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## sensboston (Jan 12, 2018)

@nate0, have you read an OP? Or just noticed a topic and began to object what "someone wrong in the internet"? 

JFIY ('cause you're not using skype and probably have no idea what is it), "Skype" is a leading video chatting software, purchased by Microsoft for $8.5 Billion. "Skype" especially designed for video chatting, and it works on most of mobile and desktop platforms (not so good as it was before purchase but acceptable) except... Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile.

"Skype' currently maintained and supported by Microsoft; public release with showstopper like this means *NO ONE CARES about W10M platform AT ALL, PERIOD*!

Do you have any argues against? Please provide.


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## nate0 (Jan 12, 2018)

sensboston said:


> @nate0, have you read an OP? Or just noticed a topic and began to object what "someone wrong in the internet"?
> 
> JFIY ('cause you're not using skype and probably have no idea what is it), "Skype" is a leading video chatting software, purchased by Microsoft for $8.5 Billion. "Skype" especially designed for video chatting, and it works on most of mobile and desktop platforms (not so good as it was before purchase but acceptable) except... Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile.
> 
> ...

Click to collapse



No I have no argument on this...it is starting to sound like a pity party to me.


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## djtonka (Jan 12, 2018)

I shut down biggest Symbian forum years ago...now is time for windowsmania.. I get used to.


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## mikevespa (Jan 12, 2018)

dape16 said:


> W10M has not been part of the OneCore development since it was left behind in "feature2".

Click to collapse



Your'e wrong because OneCore is available in W10M since the official release of Anniversary Update (14393.x) and also in pre-anniversary update insider builds.
*Read the Windows Blog carefully!*

DECEMBER 2015 - Build 11082
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/12/16/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11082/
"This includes the changes that have also been going out as cumulative updates through Windows Update on your PCs running the Windows 10 November Update as well as on phones running Windows 10 too. We’re also working on some structural improvements to OneCore, which is the shared core of Windows across devices. Essentially, *OneCore is the heart of Windows, and these improvements to OneCore make building Windows across PC, tablet, phone, IoT, Hololens and Xbox more efficient*. We’re doing some code refactoring and other engineering work to make sure OneCore is optimally structured for teams to start checking in new features and improvements in the new year." 

JANUARY 2016 - Build 11099
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...ncing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-11099/
"This build does not include big noticeable changes or new features yet. Our focus through the holidays was on structural improvements to* OneCore, which is the shared core of Windows across devices*. The code refactoring and other engineering work we’ve been doing to optimize OneCore is nearing the point where we will be ready for teams to begin checking in new features and improvements. It will still be a few builds before any really noticeable changes show up, depending on when teams begin lighting up new features in their areas. *We’re excited for Insiders to use this build to validate the work we’ve been doing to OneCore, so give this build a try and let us know of any issues you run into via the Windows Feedback app*."


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## dape16 (Jan 12, 2018)

mikevespa said:


> Your'e wrong because OneCore is available in W10M since Anniversary Update. Read the Windows Blog carefully!

Click to collapse



As I said, W10M is frozen at Redstone 2 and so is it's kernel / OneCore. *This version is outdated* and do not support new improvements / APIs / features present in the current desktop Redstone 3 branch. And with Redstone 4 not far away W10M and it's "feature2" OneCore will soon be even more obsolete.

In short, W10M is left on the old RS2 OneCore and if MS does not backport new APIs from RS3 and RS4 to W10M (as they said they would), new or updated apps that uses these APIs will not run on W10M.

Removing W10M from the W10 SDK points to MS not going this way and rather kill off W10M asasp.

EDIT: You don't have to quote two year old blog posts from MS. Yes, there was a time when W10M was in sync with current W10 branch and was a part of the OneCore development. That stopped in April last year when W10M was frozen at RS2 and W10M is no longer a part of the current W10 / OneCore development (MS has even removed the APIs related to phone calling in RS3 / Fall Creators Update).

End of discussion?


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## mikevespa (Jan 12, 2018)

It's not outdated because in RS3/RS4 there is no single new feature which can be useful to a phone.


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## dape16 (Jan 12, 2018)

mikevespa said:


> It's not outdated because in RS3/RS4 there is no single new feature which can be useful to a phone.

Click to collapse



Except from;
- A newer / much better Edge broswer
- A smarter and more feature-rich Cortana
- Timeline and Cloud Clipboard features, Android / iOS devices only
- All CShell elements, fluent design and other changes in Windows Shell
- Updated APIs making it possible to run every UWP app developed for RS3 and RS4
- ...


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## titi66200 (Jan 12, 2018)

For me Windows 10 Mobile is dead.


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## nate0 (Jan 17, 2018)

@sensboston
Is Skype fixed now? It was updated.


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## sensboston (Jan 17, 2018)

nate0 said:


> @sensboston
> Is Skype fixed now? It was updated.

Click to collapse



Partially. They are fixed upside-down issue but if you turn phone from portrait orientation to landscape, other side can't see you at all (your video is hung on the remote side).

So, this still prove my point about QA absence for W10M


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## nate0 (Jan 17, 2018)

sensboston said:


> Partially. They are fixed upside-down issue but if you turn phone from portrait orientation to landscape, other side can't see you at all (your video is hung on the remote side).
> 
> So, this still prove my point about QA absence for W10M

Click to collapse



That has been typical with W10M...fix one thing break the other...or like you stated leaving it half baked.


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## sensboston (Jan 17, 2018)

It's a "typical" when you have an only semi-professional, low-skilled (or just an interns, non-paid students) developers on the project, and no quality assurance at all.
So, "lammo hacks, lammo releases but no one cares".


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## Hevvy (Jan 19, 2018)

For a dead platform has enough updates 

Newer android systems have fewer updates, even security ones.

Android versions also get stuck with the features that come out, and do not get updated.

At least we have security updates regularly, and all the app's I use are constantly updated, so i´m very happy with the system i use.


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## sensboston (Jan 19, 2018)

@Hevvy, this topic isn't for someones happiness but about unworkable, unusable functionality of W10M.

P.S. If you wanna regular Android updates, don't buy cheap Chinese "nonames"; buy Google's phones and you'll have too much (as for me) updates


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## Hevvy (Jan 19, 2018)

@sensboston

yeah i konw, sory to bring some joy to this thread.  

just wanted to let you know that not everyone is so unhappy with this system.

not only "Chinese" droid´s don´t have updates, lots of suposed good brands, like samsung, lg´s sony´s, etc dont have even half of the updates that windows 10 mobile had.

i wont bother you with my happiness anymore


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